As a matter of fact, I was born in Fairfax. I have lived here my entire life. I have watched as my hometown has been bastardized by the ever-increasing quest for control of "smart growth". ARE YOU FROM HERE?...or are you a recent transplant who's only concern is your property value? You speak of "land developers" and their "share"...you mean the people who have companies that EMPLOY OTHERS, the ones that CREATE, the ones that BUILD HOMES, the ones that BUILD COMMERCIAL SPACE that creates NEW REVENUE, the ones that BRING COMMERCE to our county?...those people? If those are the people you think should also be responsible for paying for a couple of bureaucrat's fantasy of "light rail" system to force people out of their bad old cars then why don't we make them pay more taxes for everything else we want too? I avoid Tysons at all cost now, the metro is a financial disaster; the cost of shopping there is outrageous. Have you been to Tysons II?...It's dead. WE DON'T WANT TO BE ARLINTON OR ALEXANDRIA. We live here precisely because it's not those places. Those "few residential landowners you speak off are the ones who have SPENT THEIR LIVES PAYING FAIRFAX COUNTY TAXES to make it what it is today. So, before you go telling people they need to get "educated" on a topic before they mouth off, maybe YOU should get your head out of your elitist azz and consider someone other than yourself.

Like I thought....you bought for the PROSPECT of changing our community into something that could make YOU MORE MONEY, but the "land developers" are bad for making "massive profit"....your hypocrisy knows no bounds.....urban sprawl?...that is all that has gone on since your beloved liberals took over. Tysons used to be a great place to visit & shop. Now, it's an AGENDA 21 NIGHTMARE...just like the "Mosaic District" in Merrifield...it's another terribly thoughout, terrible executed, dinosaur.....no parking, no theater like was promised (that Angelika film center doesn't count)...I drive up Rt. 66 to the movies to AVOID Tysons....So, because YOU are willing to pay more, you think your should be able to force everybody else to get on board?....You sound like a spoiled teenager....but, then again, most liberals do.

Haha, oh Kim, you are so freaking ignorant.

I have lived here for three decades, I grew up here, and I worked in land development domestically before the bubble. I am an engineer and I take crisis as a good time to take note and lessons learned. What do you do that makes you an expert in anything? Nothing. Calling me an elite azz, when likely you live in McLean and have far more money than me. Spouting idiocy about agenda 21 just shows what kind of a class A moron you really truly are.

1) Developers do deserve to make money, something I have actually defended in multiple articles of my own. The difference here is sprawl vs smart growth. For 30 years (your precious old times when things were evidently magically delightful) land developers sprawled development without any provisions to pay for the roads and traffic and school needs they created. The minimal proffer payments they made barely made a dent in year 1 let alone a 50 year life cycle.

The point of smart growth is to encourage good growth that puts those who stand the most to make accountable for their share of the cost they burden the state with.

2) You are ignorant on what the silver line is, its not a light rail, its a regular heavy rail system.

3) I live in Tysons, you dont. I went to the mall last night, it was packed, and Tysons II is just as successful.

4) Get an education because your stupidity is showing

Further more, as I said before, this isnt even a tax on you! The democrats are actually the part of LESS TAXES. Look at the facts the more liberal a county in this region the less the real estate tax. Arlington leads, then fairfax, and in the back is Loudoun and Prince William.

The silver line was in majority built WITHOUT tax payer assistance. Thats why it ISNT a boondoggle. The funding for it was created so that people like you couldnt hold up a project that stands to bring real commerce and economic growth to our region, using of all things something as stupid as "Agenda 21" doomsday crap to hold it up.

There are things in the world called math, logic, empirical evidence. These are what craft policy, not your stupid mob mentality you petty little child.

Oh Navid... I do not live in McLean, so you trying to stereotype me as an old, rich person fails....I'm not sure who you are trying to fool with all of the obfuscating you did in your previous two posts, but either you are woefully uninformed or you have a very short memory. This "special tax district" has been in the works since before the Tysons Metro project was approved. They had to have it to fund the construction. I refer you to this from the county's own website: At their June 18, 2007 meeting, the Fairfax County Board of Supervisors authorized a local funding agreement with the Metropolitan Washington Airports Authority (MWAA) and Loudoun County and also authorized expenditure of funds from the Dulles Corridor Phase I Special Improvement Tax District for the construction of the Dulles Corridor Metrorail Project. This agreement committed Fairfax County to funding a percentage of the total cost of construction. This "special tax district" isn't about future "land developers", it's about taxing already established businesses and residents WHO DIDN'T WANT THE METRO IN THE FIRST PLACE. Now, it's time to pay and Fairfax County's Board of Supervisors was going to approve this "special tax district" no matter what was said at the public appeasement hearing.

What do I do that makes me an expert in anything? Well, this class A moron who is in her 40's READS!, so when you spout off about the "idiocy" of understanding the United Nations attempt to set the guidelines for global growth at the LOCAL level in America, which has already been implemented in most of the eastern part of Fairfax County, then I have to ask, who is ignorant on the issue?... I digress. Back to the issue at hand.
You say the funding for the metro was "created" without tax payer assistance so that people like me couldn't hold up a project that stands to bring real commerce and economic growth to our region. Who exactly are you trying to sell that idea to? Fairfax County has ALWAYS had REAL commerce and economic growth. Basically, what you're saying is that you and your like-minded comrades were going to shove this crazy expensive boondoggle down the rest of our throats whether we liked it or not, right?

Sprawl vs. "smart growth"......you say "for 30 years developers sprawled development without any provisions to pay for the roads and traffic and school needs they created"...really? Could you give me an example of what you consider "sprawl" in Fairfax County? Would it be those neighborhoods that AREN'T built on "minimal lots"...that actually have character?...the ones that aren't cookie-cutter houses and townhouses crammed so closely together that you can touch your neighbor's house from your own window?...that sprawl?...or are you talking about the "high-density dwellings" your kind is so fond of? Build the Metro, force only condos and apartments to be built within miles of it, defund the real road improvements that would relieve traffic congestion, THEN people will be "nudged", "shoved", and forced to ride it....perfect plan, huh? You "central planners" are all alike, you think you know better than the majority around you and you are willing to force the rest of us to pay for your pipe dreams, regardless of the long-term damage you create. Don't give me that "real commerce and economic growth" spin...I'm not buying.

Navid?...do you suffer from A.D.D.?...I only ask because you seem to not be able to stick to one position or another. First, you tell me how YOU and others in your "district" are all if favor of paying more taxes to have "real commerce" and "economic growth"...that the tax money collected from the first "special tax district" was ONLY collected from developers who WANTED to pay the taxes voluntarily, the second "special service district" TAX is for roads, transit, and pedestrian projects to accommodate mostly people who don't even live in the "district" and you and your neighbors are all voluntarily willing to pay those taxes for the good of "real commerce" and "economic growth"...I realize that there are 2 different tax districts; I gave you the snippet from the county website as an example of how this Metro project included "special TAX districts" from the beginning. Are you trying to tell me that there wasn't STRONG OPPOSITION to this project from the beginning? ...that everybody thought this was a good idea? Then, you try to tell me how almost NO TAX PAYER FUNDS were used to fund this project...continued below

You say..."The funding was "created" so that people like me couldn't hold up "progress". I guess those state funds, federal funds, and Dulles Toll Road Revenue used to pay for this project aren't TAX DOLLARS, right?...those funds are just magic money that appeared out of nowhere, right? ...sort of like when the FED prints money, it's magic. What was it you said...NO MONEY IS BEING TAKEN FROM OTHER AREAS?...isn't that what you said?...So, which is it Navid? Was this a perfectly harmonious government/private sector endeavor that tax payers were in favor of from the start and agreed willingly to fund with their tax dollars OR was the funding for this project CREATED solely by private funding and almost NO TAX PAYERS were affected by it?...so, before we go any further, I think you should take a moment to decide which argument you would like to make....you can't have it both ways, sweetie.

I thought liberals were all in favor of redistributing the wealth. IF Gov. McDonnell is only sending $.19 of every dollar back to our region that should be perfect under your party's agenda. I guess that only applies when it doesn't affect YOUR county, region, or state, right?....I would love to read these "article" you wrote on how developer should get to make a profit, BUT.......Let me guess... after a certain percentage of profit from the free market system, it is ONLY FAIR to give back; to spread the wealth around so that everyone is EQUAL...at what percentage should their profit be capped, Navid?....Like I said, your hypocrisy knows NO BOUNDS!

Wow Navid, I knew my previous posts would present your superior intellect with a dilemma, but I never thought it would send you into such a panic that you had to pull the Glenn Beck card...but, since it did, it made me think...maybe you're a visual learner; maybe if I could break out a big piece of paper and a crayon, i could make you see the big picture. You seem to have missed the point. The Tysons METRO (which is what we are talking about) had strong opposition from the beginning. The people of THIS region would have much rather had "development" NOT include THE METRO...roads and utilities to connect house DOES NOT have to include a multi-billion dollar Metro paid for by forced taxation on the people of the region to accommodate people OUT of the region....Since I'm so "under-prepared" to debate the subject with you and no one will take me seriously, who would you suggest I get to explain it to me?...Chris Matthews?....What is it that the kids say?....LOL!

Out of curiosity, I read your article on "air rights", "Grand pedestrian plazas", and "roads are a waste of space"...no wonder you are TERRIFIED of anyone referencing Agenda 21...you are no only a supporter of the idea, you are actually a PURVEYOR of the program...tell me NAVID, where does it end? When Tysons looks like Crystal City?...or maybe the inner city? What region is next in your grand scheme? You couldn't care less about what the people of the region want; you have an agenda and it's number is 21.

Kim,

You are simply just an ignorant little troll. 60% of Fairfax supported the Silver Line. Any other idiocy you want to spread that isnt true?

You are an outlier. And what you don't understand about what I am saying is it HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH TAX PAYERS.

You are uneducated in land development. You think urbanization has something to do with public funds. Some of it does. Infrastructure for instance. But the way Tysons is being developed reduces the infrastructure costs not increases. Never before have private interests funded this much infrastructure. You dont realize that.

I cite Glenn Beck because you are the kind of troll moron who thinks Agenda 21 is a reality. Yes Kim, I am from the UN and I am here to destroy you. Grow the fuck up, I have lived her for longer than you have. This is my last message to you because you dont deserve my time and acknowledgment.

Note to the public, don't feed the trolls.

Navid, I dare you to go back through this thread and find where I said "any transit project is an attempt from the UN to spread european ideals through a mass conspiracy through America"...I dare you......

Your anger is showing...I know that's what happens when you can't support, deflect, confuse, or scare the opposing view point, but...it is what it is. How is it that you go from not being able to clearly explain the funding for the Metro to accusing me of being a moon landing conspiracy theorist?....Like I said, when you can't DEFEND you position, you try to make others afraid to listen to the opposition. Navid.....WHO IS PAYING FOR THE METRO? WHO WANTED THE TYSONS METRO (be careful with this answer, there is a record) ..and lastly, please..please get a dictionary and look-up the words....DOGMATIC AND OBFUSCATE.....you might want to check that blood pressure too!

Oh yea...one more word for you to look-up...misogynist.

Ok Kim McCoy. Way to deflect the points I made that were based in reality KIM MCCOY. You are saying I am the one getting agitated? I am simply disgusted with what a troll you are. You are the one typing in caps and screaming to people to blame me for things that arent even accurate or the case. Thats the problem you see, you are not educated.

You cited Agenda 21. Do you not even know what that is? Do you just say the things that Fox tell you to? By saying Tysons is part of agenda 21 you are directly saying exactly what I said.

Who wanted the Tysons metro? I frickin linked the damn poll. The people that one Metro are the hundreds of thousands of people who live along the Dulles Corridor who would like alternative transportation options. The reason it went to Tysons was because without Tysons it would not have met the strict standards in place for ridership in order to qualify for federal funding of Phase 1 by simply being an airport road. By including the possible 50k commuters to Tysons it became one of the most viable transit designs in the history of the region. Dunno why I need to explain any of this to you because you are a biased little troll who couldnt care less about truth or facts.

Keep on with the flaming capital letters though, because you know, Donald Trump looks like a sane person every time he does it too. KIM MCCOY!

Clear example of how unbelievably ignorant you are about the things you hate. You dont even know what you are fighting against.

This 7-9 cent tax has zero, count it zero to do with Phase II of the metro you stupid ignorant little woman who thinks she knows things that she has never spent any time to even read about.

This 7-9 cent tax has to do with providing road, bike, transit, and pedestrian improvements within the comprehensive plan boundary of Tysons alone. It is dramatically supported by most in Tysons (where I live and you don't and yet you seem to have your undies in a bunch about this issue).

Also you completely lie about my stance on road projects. I believe road projects are also important and effective. Unlike you, I understand the maximum efficiency that occurs with roads and queue cycles because I actually have a license in the subject and took 4 years at one of the best engineering colleges in the country. But then again I am just a dime a dozen engineer right? You and your street wise are clearly more knowledgeable about this.

The point is road projects in decentralized districts are needed, they hit a peak efficiency and can not carry higher traffic levels at economical levels beyond that (hence why you dont see 40 lane highways). Again, dunno why I feel the need to school you on these issues, but I just dont want your lies continuing out into the world mostly.

Also the point is HOW much is going towards sprawl road projects vs how much goes to transit projects. In many ways transit projects like Orange Line extension, a beltway BRT, and the silver line are far more popular than the outer beltway that you are discussing in your comment. The problem is the state is fine sending hundreds of millions to those projects even though it will not bring any new economy to our region, all the while ignoring the economic engine in the Dulles Corridor with a pawltry 150 million. I am fine with both receiving state funding, and I am a supporter of both having underlying funding capabilities from private economic growth.

You are a pyscho :) bless your heart.

You mean the 50% in the meeting mostly which are the vocal minority. Thats the funny thing, even if you extend the idea that those people in that meeting were against it, they still only represented 50%. 50% still support it, and I hate to break it to you but its actually a lot more.

Even those that were against it, were so, because they believe the state should be helping with the costs more as it has typically been the states role to provide infrastructure funding. Of which I agree. Devoid of this funding because of the chrony atmosphere in Richmond (thanks to the petroleum institutes former officer Connaughton) no funding will be coming to liberal NOVA.

If you are such a free market supporter perhaps you can talk to your GOP overlord in Richmond to tell him that he is not being business friendly by forcing businesses in NOVA to cover the cost for Richmond, all the while taking 11 billion from NOVA and returning 2 billion to the area, all the while holding onto a 500 million annual surplus that doesnt belong to the state, it belongs to NOVA.

That is socialism you pyschotic troll. Your hypocrisy I suppose can't come to terms with the fact that the GOP is a socialist party as long as it means socialism for their corporate interests. Examples;

Coalfields Expressway
295 bypass
Charlottesville bypass
460 bypass
One Loudoun highway
Route 50 widening

Also almost 1/8th of the funds in the Tysons Infrastructure plan go to Route 7, 10 times more than goes to Pedestrian projects (500 million) to widen it to appease the gods of commute. So again, you are ignorant on the facts and Table 7. Route 7 funding alone is equal to ALL of the funds that go towards the circulator bus service over the next 40 years. Thats how expensive it is to improve roads, and the relative benefit they provide.

You would know that if you ever worked in public policy, civil engineering, or transportation modelling. But then again, all of us who actually study facts are just a dime a dozen. Your life will not be dictated by fact checkers right?

Well, NAVID ROSHAN...I see you spent 6 posts skirting the issue at hand and rambling on about some socialist nonsense, but you couldn't find a way to answer two simple questions. Straightforward isn't your strong suit, is it? It is also apparent that you are not used to having your dogma challenged...especially by a woman who isn't afraid of you or your misogynistic insults. So, I will leave you with one final question and one final observation.
1. When the Board approved the Metro, all the contracts were signed, and the county broke ground on Phase I, what was the concrete plan in place to fund Phase II?...and why did that concrete plan fail? (I would refer you to the topic of the article at hand)
2. Let's say, for the sake of argument, you are right about 60% of the people wanting to pay higher taxes to fund the Metro and the other 40% just have to accept it, because that's how our system works. The beauty is that 100% of the people get the added privilege of, once the Metro opens, paying exorbitant, ever-increasing FARES to ride it....for the rest of their lives. The Silver Line: The gift that keeps on taxing!

Kim I'm starting to think you cant read unless things are in caps so for your blind and illiterate benefit

THIS TAX DOES NOT GO TOWARDS ANY METRO FUNDING THIS IS ONLY FOR ROADS WALKS AND THE FAIRFAX CIRCULATOR BUS WITHIN TYSONS CORNER. THE PREVIOUS TAX WAS ASKED FOR BY DEVELOPERS, VOLUNTARILY, 3 YEARS AGO WHICH DID FUND PART OF PHASE 1. THEY VOLUNTEERED BECAUSE AS BUSINESS LEADERS THEY KNOW THAT METRO MEANS MARKETABILITY AND VALUE TO THEIR PROPERTIES AND LEASE CAPABILITIES.

On the issue of Phase 2

Phase 1 and phase 2 were separated because at the time only phase 1 could attain federal funding via the stimulus given the ridership requirements needed to attain that funding. The funding of Phase 2 has nothing to do with anything in this article or anything I have discussed. If you want to discuss that, go talk to business people in the Reston and Ashburn community. The vote that occurred has literally NOTHING to do with that. That is the problem that you are not letting sink in. This vote was for Tysons and Tysons only, within the boundaries of Tysons (with the exception of 10% of the funding for Route 7 outside of Tysons in order to help commuters not living in Tysons).

I'd also like to point out about your anti-transit idiocy that metro fares have increased at a slower rate over the last 20 years than both gas and the rate of inflation averaged over a 3% GDP. Just stop arguing, go read up on the 20 year history of this project and then come back to discuss

Navid...Phase II, which had to exist to make the "comprehensive" plan work, WAS NOT FUNDED AT THE TIME WE BROKE GROUND ON PHASE I. How can you say this tax does not go towards funding the project? You said it yourself...Phase I was the only part of the ENTIRE plan that could secure FEDERAL TAX DOLLARS (that's tax payer money, by the way) because of what?...oh yea, "ridership requirements"...what were those requirements, Navid?
Phase II has everything to do with this article...the "special service district" TAX is tax money going to pay for Phase II of your comprehensive Metro project plan...that tax money will be used for walkways and buses to accommodate the new Metro...not an already necessary need for those particular walks and buses.
Do you know how much it costs to ride the Orange line from Vienna to Washington round trip? No matter how low you think the increase is in Metro fares, the point is, tax payers are expected to pay a higher tax rate (forever) to build it and then be saddled with the cost to maintain it FOREVER...Not only would I not buy a used car from you; I wouldn't buy a new one from you either.

Oh my dear god its like Im talking to a 5 year old.

LISTEN FOR ONCE IN YOUR MISERABLE LIFE

THIS TAX DOES NOT GO TO PHASE II of metro

NONE OF IT. Ok? It goes towards roads, sidewalks within Tysons. Dear god why are you so vapid. This isnt even a debate. That is what it goes towards you dont even know the facts and you think you have a right to debate this.

The tax that you are talking about is a special tax in Loudoun County. do you even know where that is? Its 25 miles west of Tysons. Reston will also have a special tax for metro phase II.

NONE OF THESE have ANYTHING TO DO, with this article or what the BoS approved.

Why dont you understand that you thick skulled botox junky

You are so dumb you are confusing the Fairfax County Master Plan with 1) The Tysons Corner Comprehensive plan which have NOTHING TO DO WITH EACH OTHER

And then you are also somehow confusing Fairfax Countys comprehensive plan with Metros Phase I and Phase II silver line which HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH EACH OTHER.

You are putting lies and mis information out to the world and I have no idea why the people who read the patch aren't calling you out for it. Frankly I have to say shame on the patch for allowing your lies to continue. I say they are lies because these are known facts about where money is going and coming, and you don't have a basic grasp on the laws and budget policies that you supposedly are against.

There is nothing to discuss as far as that goes because that is reality whether you want to believe it or not.

Now go on say once again how this 7-9 cent tax in Tysons has to do with Phase II of Silver Line construction some how and I'll keep correcting you till you stop because I refuse to allow idiots get away with spouting false statements without knowing the facts.

I'm not even a liberal. Thats the funniest part about this. You assume I am some socialist because what?

1) I believe in free market capitalism
2) I believe in infrastructure via other means that highways, something that was paramount in Reagan's policies?
3) I believe that developers should be allowed to make significant profit, but that it shouldnt be at the cost of condemning other properties?

How is any of that socialist? Oh right, because TRAINS ARE BAD!! GRRR!! Agenda 21!! How dare a transportation engineer with 10 years and a P.E. license try to explain to a layman how transportation planning should occur. I mean her knowledge in this matter is just as significant as mine.

Navid..did you read the information in the link you posted?...did you miss this part..."provides reliable funding mechanisms to implement the visionary plan"......" a comprehensive strategy for funding the set of infrastructure improvements identified in the Tysons Plan to support the 113 million square feet of development anticipated to occur by 2050" ....AND "to pursue interim parking opportunities at the Tysons Metrorail stations."
Now Navid...could you tell me why the planning commission anticipates such a need?...Could it be that the Metro will substantially increase the need for more and more infrastructure improvements and maintenance costs? I'm sure that the Metro will bring a lot of growth to the area, but at what cost to the residents?...This has already forever changed, not only the landscape of the community but the feel, pace, and general ease of the once peaceful, thriving community that was Tysons Corner.
So, you go ahead, take your whiny little crying azz to the author of the article and lament that your version of the facts weren't represented in a manner you find fitting. The rest of us know exactly what's happening here...poor baby!

Oh so now you want to change what you were saying. Listen I know more about the comp plan than any one in their right mind should. I run a damn website solely on the subject matter. So lets now focus on this newest claim that you have (different from the previous one where you said that the tax would go towards Phase II).

You are talking about chicken and egg. Tysons Corner is the reason why tax rates in Fairfax are lower than Loudoun. The area of Tysons generates hundreds of millions in tax dollars for Fairfax in Real Estate taxes and even more for the state in sales and commercial taxes. The way things were going everyone (or atleast most people looking at the regions crippling sprawl problems) saw that without creating order out of the chaos in Tysons that it would collapse under its own cost. That jobs would suddenly shift to new areas further west and further east leaving Fairfax in a void. The cheap offices would continue to shift further out, the prestige offices would go to Arlington or DC. Traffic and the regional impression was bringing down what for decades was one of the greatest economic stories in American History (the rise of Fairfax County).

So some people wanted the status quo. Ok, but the majority in fairfax wanted real changes that would help traffic which didnt just mean another lane to I-66

However, to say this 7 cent tax is because of metro is pure fantasy. If it werent for metro the infrastructure costs needed would be more. More road plans, more highway ramps, probably the conversion of Route 7 into a limited access highway similar to Route 28. All of those things are extremely expensive and would not have been able to get the backing of private land owners and developers who wouldnt see any benefit in their value (and therefore wouldnt pay additional taxes).

Metro Phase II is happening between Reston and Ashburn. Will people from there take metro into Tysons? yea probably, but the cost for roads and walkways (77 million by the way, less than 1% of the cost since most of it goes towards roads) created because of metro Phase II?

Thats a stretch Kim. Thats really a desperate pivot to save face on you being absolutely wrong on so many false statements. I dont really care now though, because that atleast is an opinion. As long as you stop lying to readers and saying this tax is for metro phase II. The cost of that construction is not in anyways funded by Tysons (outside of regular general funds that everyone pays).

And again, you keep saying all these things about the peaceful life of Tysons Corner (clearly someone who doesnt live here, where I live and am a resident of).

Do you live here? You still havent said yes or no.

I get the feeling from all this rambling that you actually live far away from Tysons, so what matter is it to you what the residents here want to have done to our city? Its none of your business and it uses none of your money.

I have not changed what I was saying. The tax increases that keep getting passed by the Fairfax County Board of Supervisors, to fund the collateral needs from the construction of the silver line, hurt the very people who have spent their entire lives living, working, and spending their money here. They are being taxed out of their homes to make way for people who can afford higher taxes but had nothing to do with the last 50 years of building it. You say "everyone" saw that "we" needed to create order out of chaos...that" Tysons was going to collapse under its own cost...right?...So, the only possible solution was to transform Tysons into something total foreign to what it has historically been and force the residents who paid for the last 50 years of economic growth out? "..."that traffic and regional "impression" was bringing down the greatest economic story in American history" Have you seen the skyline of Tysons lately? Have you tried to maneuver through the Rt.7/Rt. 123 corridor? Like I said, I have lived here my whole life (just barely outside of your precious district) and I avoid Tysons at all cost; I will not use the Metro, patronize the movie theatre, nor will I shop in the corridor. Now, to experience Tysons you must either live close enough to walk it or drive to a Metro station that will, in the future, drop you into it...at a cost....by the way, have you seen the Fairfax County employee payroll?

Navid, this all started because you didn't like that I am against another tax increase on residents that you are in favor of, right? OK, you live in the "special service district" and you think it will help the long-term economic stability of you area because it will ensure "real" growth, right? Does the Tysons plan include some big industrial or manufacturing development that I'm not aware of?...I had to laugh as I wrote that question because you and I both know that the only reason Fairfax County has been somewhat insulated from the countrywide downturn is that the federal government is here.
Besides the over-abundance of federal, state, and local employees, we have an abundance of necessary government contractors that provide real jobs, right? Where are those government contractors mostly located? I'll save you the trouble; they are located in Fair Lakes, Chantilly, & those outlying areas you call sprawl. You say you are a fiscal conservative, but how can you expect to fill all of that new commercial office space in Tysons unless you see an even greater expanse of the federal government or you plan to lure the existing government contractors away from the outlying areas? Let's say you are successful in luring those government contractors like Northrop Grumman, Boeing, & Booz-Allen away from other parts of Fairfax County like Fair Lakes, Chantilly, and Reston; what then should Fairfax County do with all of that commercial space in the "sprawl" districts? ....continued.

So, the commercial office space that is part of the grand "vision" for Tysons will be filled with what industry? The Tech industry? Do you remember the AOL Headquarters debacle? Why would any other industry want to relocate to Tysons when the per square foot leasing costs will not be economically sound business? "Real" growth involves a fundamental need to be in a particular area. I understand that you are a civil engineer, that you live in the district and bought for the prospect of a "city" and increasing property values, but the reality is that our property values are based on an ever-expanding federal government not real industry. If you were truly a fiscal conservative, you would be in favor of bringing some industrial and manufacturing industry to our area and not just more consumption space. To spend on consuming we must first create something of real value. Which brings me back around to my original post. The Fairfax County Board of Supervisors is a one-trick pony; they call their grand plan over the last 20 years "smart growth", but I don't believe it to be "smart" at all....What is smart about a multi-billion dollar transit project that doesn't include any industrial space; that includes only commercial office and retail space?...unless, yet again, your plan is to continue to grow the federal, state, and local governments.

Kim I am confused.

Youare talking about companies in Chantilly and Fair Lakes... but the companies you mention have massive headquarters where? In Tysons

Both Booz, SAIC, and North Grumman are all in Tysons as their headquarter. SAIC wants to increase their own presence in Tysons which constitutes 5% of the commercial space increase. Capital One wants to increase their headquarter size which constitutes 10% of the new comp plan size. Booz is also part of the likely expansion though they have not confirmed they will be consolidating their 3 current buildings in Tysons into 1 large building.

Beyond that, 3 large companies are expanding in Tysons. LMI which has a new building. Kapscka Trafficom is leasing significant space. And mitre is continuing to grow in Tysons.

There is also a new hilton hotel and office annex coming associated with Hiltons headquarters in Tysons. Exelis is expanding into Tysons. And Kaiser just moved into their very large new medical campus which is making INOVA consider a new research center at Tysons.

There are over 1400 companies located in Tysons with 115,000 employees. Its not where the stores are, its where the businesses are. By allowing those fortune 500s to expand their presence it will increase job availability and really help diversify Fairfax's economy (especially if Cap1, Cardinal, Kaiser, and Hilton keep growing here)

But beyond that, the commercial element is just part of whats happening in Tysons.

Our county has had trouble holding onto its residents over the past 10 years. Arlington is drawing away younger professionals and small families who want urban amenities, and Loudoun is drawing away more established families who would like to live in Fairfax for the schools but can't necessarily afford it.

By creating a pressure relief in the number of housing units available in fairfax we can retain a lot of that tax base. We can get some of those young professionals living in the county which will help reduce the cost of business for many corporations. And the additional housing will be an option for retirees and people who like high density living as well. In my building we are about 1/3, 1/3, 1/3 between young professionals, young small families, and retirees.

Those people being located in Tysons will also spur innovation for retailers and small businesses that are in the service industry because they now have an inherent customer base in their neighborhood. Those local retailers will keep money in our region instead of it going towards the large national retailers as currently occurs (not that there is anything wrong with that either).

I am a fiscal conservative. My hope of Tysons is that it will continue to act as the engine and stable force in our county economically. I do think we need to stop over spending on things too, but investment spurs growth and gains too

Boeing - 14675 Lee Rd. Chantilly, VA., 15059 Conference Center Dr. Chantilly, VA., 13651 McLearen Rd. Herndon, VA., 460 Herndon Pkwy Herndon, VA.

Northrop-Grumman - 14303 Sully field Circle, Chantilly, VA., 487 Stonecroft Blvd. Chantilly, VA., 14585 Avion Pkwy. Chantilly, VA., 4262 Entre Ct., Chantilly, VA., 14100 Park Meadow Dr. Chantilly, VA.

Booz-Allen & Hamilton - 15059 Conference Center Dr. Chantilly, VA., 14151 Park Meadow Dr. Chantilly, VA., 13200 Woodland Park rd. Herndon, Va., 575 Herndon Pkwy. Herndon, VA.

So, since you didn't seem to "know what I was talking about", I thought I would bring you up to speed on where these fine companies occupy tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, of already existing square footage of office space in Fairfax County. Now, is your plan to move those satellite offices to Tysons?...or is the plan to grow the only industry Northern Virginia has, which is government and government contractors? The only thing that can necessitate the further expansion of those companies, in our area, is the growth of government, right?
Other companies you mentioned - LMI (government contractors), Exelis (government contractors), Kapscka (doesn't even turn up on a Google search)...and the two companies/entities you mentioned that aren't government contractors are Kaiser (which I would not advertise if I were you, but that's an entirely different thread) and INOVA.

As to your stance of "changing demographics"...you know, people...

So, we've had trouble holding on to our residents for the last ten years...hmm, why do you think we've only had that problem for TEN years? Could it have anything to do with the transformation of our area into an artificially expensive, "multi-cultural" nightmare with no sense of identity, purpose, or community? So, your building is 1/3, 1/3, 1/3, right? So, a transient population is the new norm your trying to create? The need for long-term residents that put down roots in their communities and raise families that have kids who eventually want to stay in the area are no longer "optimal" for "smart growth"? Look, we come at this from two very distinct viewpoints. You are an engineer whose job it is to look at things from a non-personal point of view; to "manage" people and "manage" development, to "direct" our community like an orchestra leader "leads" his musicians. I, on the other hand, am just an idiotic, class A moronic troll who has no clue what she's talking about, right? I'm not naive, I know that we are always going to be a suburb of Washington, DC and the silver line is here to stay, but in creating this "new vision" for the area, you have disenfranchised 1/2 of the population that spent their lives living in, working in and paying taxes in this part of the county precisely so it wouldn't become Arlington. You make it seem like our area was going to die without this project...it wasn't and you know it...you just have the need to justify your own progressive desire.

Kim,

I am well aware that those companies have offices in other parts of Fairfax, I have friends who have worked for many of them.

My point being is that they also have very large presences in Tysons ALREADY. Not going to have, they already are key players in the existing Tysons commercial market. In the case of SAIC, LMI, and Capital One they are active developers trying to increase their own commercial space so they can expand.

Again, I am not sure what you are talking about Kim. No one is saying they should consolidate other offices, but they want to expand, they want to have room to increase since we are coming out of the recession. Thats something that every fairfax person should want.

We do come at this from two different points, but my point is the traditional point of the republican party.

I dont know when the party started to go astray and make it seem like cities were the problem, likely when the demographics started to shift towards lower class city dwellers after eisenhower. Cities are not the problem.

Teddy Roosevelt said if you build better cities you can protect the way of life and more natural and scenic areas. It is true. Its not just "urbanization" Kim, nothing in life is that simple. It is about what kind of urbanization. For years in Fairfax we have allowed it to keep expanding outward and outward, making more things covered in concrete, bigger roads, bigger everything.

We dont need to do that.

There are two directions space will grow, horizontally and vertically. And the point is that vertically is more sustainable, is easier to access for residents, brings in more value to the county with less obligations for cost per acre, and leaves MORE areas undisturbed.

I am the first person to speak out against urbanization of neighborhoods in McLean, Vienna, Fairfax, Herndon. This county is huge in space. 30 times larger than manhattan and holds 1/8th the number of people. There is no reason we should keep building outward and disturbing established neighborhoods.

The point of making Tysons better is to stop the tide of bad redevelopment elsewhere in the county, not to spur it. We just will not agree on this

Navid,...it's almost as if you're trying to be obtuse on purpose...but, at least we're getting somewhere now. So, there will be no need to consolidate the outlying office space for the government contractors, right? They have a need to further expand in our area, right?...Is Boeing going to be building commercial airliners nearby? The only need, in our area, for these companies to expand is more government contracts...hence, growing the only industry we have here, government. The expansion of the federal government doesn't fit with my idea of what "industry" is...What exactly is comprehensive about a plan that is myopic in the most important area of need...private industry that doesn't include government subsidy? ...coming out of a recession? You mean that national growth rate of 1.3%?...Who said "cities" were the problem?..not me, I love going downtown (full of beautiful architecture, museums, history)(but, I never ride the Metro to get there, I like the independence of my car!) You keep talking about "we" ...who is "we"?... "we" keep letting growth expand outward, "we" don't need that...There is no reason "we" should keep building out...Who is the "we" that decides vertical is the best plan for our immediate area?...you?...don't even get me started on the buzzword "sustainable". When you were going to your prestigious school, did they ever teach you the word indoctrination?
..and by the way, You should quit quoting Teddy Roosevelt ...I'm not a big fan.

Let's recap...OK?...without becoming mired in the minutia.
I believe that the people of the region who have spent generations building the community should have the final say in how their hard-earned tax money should be spent. They should actually get to decide if they want to fund a multi-billion dollar transit project that "central planners" tell them is the best solution. I don't believe that people who may want to move to an area that may become someplace they may want to spend 8-15 years living in should get to dictate to the long-term residents...even if it is for "the collective good" of the local economy.
You believe that growth must be centrally orchestrated, costly feasibility studies of all kinds should be performed over decades, projections must be made base on current trends (that can change at any time), comprehensive plans must be carried out to realize optimum mass, ...because, the little people just can't see that everything being planned for them is for the best...they just don't understand, right?